The Art Of Negotiation with Wes Schaeffer | #039

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation

 

Going into a seminar, you know that there is a beginning and an end to it. Wes Schaeffer believes that repetition is the key to learning. He offers the Make Every Sale program and he gets down and shares all his expertise about it. As an Air Force veteran, author, host, and founder of The Sales Whisperer®, he is filled with so many knowledge about the sales and the marketing game. He talks about some very unique perspective on how to prospect and close deals. One particular thing he discusses is the art of negotiation, bringing in what he calls “the sales dog.” Sharing some of the biggest needs people have with sales, Wes gives the four parts to being a professional salesperson as well as the proposal process.

Listen to the podcast here:

The Art Of Negotiation with Wes Schaeffer

You are in for an amazing conversation. I hopped off the horn with our very special guest, Wes Schaeffer, The Sales Whisperer, and we talked about a ton of stuff that you are absolutely going to love. Wes has been in the sales marketing game for a very long time and he has a very unique perspective on how to prospect and on how to close deals. I’ve known Wes in our circles and when we hopped on our conversation, I wanted to dive deep on topics that weren’t talked about very publicly. One particular area that we dove deep into was the art of negotiation. This has been a very interesting topic for me personally because I’ve never heard about it. I took a negotiating class and so I wanted to get Wes’ take and his spin on negotiations. He talked about something very fascinating called the sales dog, and it stems from a chain dog. I’m going to tease you with that because I want you to understand what I’m talking about and we’ll talk about that inside of the episode. Pay attention and when you’re done, make sure that you reach out to Wes and thank him for his time on this interview. It was a fascinating interview. We talked about a ton and he also runs a family of nine, so he’s a very busy guy.

You are in for an amazing treat. I have a very special guest and we have been connected for quite some time in our space, Wes Schaeffer, The Sales Whisperer. Wes, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

I’m very excited. It’s been a while. I believe I was on your podcast and I’ve been creeping around. I’ve been following you for a while. I’m very excited to have you on the show and talk about what you’ve got going on and we’ll talk about your journey and the different types of opportunities that you seized. For everyone who doesn’t know who Wes is, do us a favor and give us an intro about who you are, what makes you unique and what is The Sales Whisperer.

My mama says I’m unique like everybody else. I’ve been in sales since I got out of the Air Force in 1997. I have a wife, a kid and another one on the way. She’s been a stay-at-home mom, so I’ve had to put food on the table now for a family of nine. After all these years, we kept adding kids. In 2006, I started The Sales Whisperer and I realized that I was more motivated than my bosses. I kept investing in myself when they wouldn’t. I found my own sales coach and that’s what led me to launch my own business. Over the years, it expanded from pure sales training into marketing automation, inbound marketing. I realized I was a good writer, that I was a good marketer. Sales and marketing are two sides of the same coin. By being stubborn and refusing to quit, I finally make it to your show.

The Sales Whisperer has been around since 2006. What do you think it is that you see as the biggest need of people who ultimately become customers of yours or in your sphere of influence, your audience, your network? There are lots of sales and marketing training out there. There are lots of different ways to sell and market. What is your unique approach? What is your motto?

Once you put too much into your meal, you can't take it back out; it's ruined. Click To Tweet

My motto is to help humans sell to humans. I’m all for niching. I’m all for having your USP and everything. I’m all for technology, I use it, but I use just enough technology to make the sale versus figuring out how much technology can I use just to use it. Technology is like salt. Once you put too much into your meal, you can’t take it back out and it’s ruined. People have forgotten that there are people on the other end of that computer screen. There’s a human being on the other end of the phone. There’s a human being standing across from you at your desk if they come into your place of business. There are people who are so focused on the sale that they forget it’s a human being.

There are four parts to being a professional salesperson. One is realizing that selling is a calling. You’re meant to be doing what you’re doing. Second is that serving has its purpose. Zig Ziglar always said, “You can get whatever you want if you’re helping other people get what they want.” I see too many people want fame and fortune. They want 10,000 Instagram followers. Go serve people. How does that help you serve? Questioning is the process. Are you showing up thinking you have all the answers or are you engaging with them to see what their need is? Finally, you realize that a sale may be the solution. Maybe I’m not right. I tell more people no than yes and I steer them in the right direction. If you understand that, if you internalize that then things are going to be fine for you. Looking for these tricks, what’s the latest and greatest, “Messenger bots, that’s going to grow my sales.” Maybe it will, but will it help you serve more people and grow your sales or will it help you trick more people to grow your sales because there is a big difference?

You’re saying that it’s not as simple as setting up some complicated automated sales funnel on watching the sales rolling.

Do you know Michael Stelzner?

I don’t know him personally, but I know him.

He is the Social Media Examiner, Social Media Marketing World Founder. He was feeling frustrated on Facebook and he ranted, “I don’t like getting five emails in a row that are follow-ups on a sales pitch. If you use these automated systems to cold pitch, stop it. I don’t respond by design. It only makes me like you less.” Here’s a human being that five people have now pissed off and won’t get any business from him. If they keep it up, he’ll call you out by name. I’m all for these marketing on major systems. I’ve put food on the table primarily because I’ve sold and trained people on marketing automation, but we do it as humans, not just robots blasting the world.

I totally love human interaction and using automation where it makes sense because we all need some form of automation. Automation is leverage but you have to have a delicate balance so you get your time back because that’s what automation is meant for. It’s not meant for building that trust factor. It can build at a certain level but at some point, people still need to talk to people. Tell me what you talked about in your Make Every Sale Program. That’s your flagship program. Do you teach the same concept inside that program? How does Make Ever Sale Program different than all the other sales and marketing trainers out there?

It’s different in a few ways. One, it’s never-ending. It’s a nine-week program but in week ten, we start back in week one because repetition is the key to learning. As you apply the principles, you start to grow and as you grow, it doesn’t mean you don’t have problems. It just means you have different problems. You’re never going to grasp everything. Just like when you go see a movie for the second time or read a book for the second time, you’re like, “How did I miss that?” That’s something you were totally into. When you’re going through training you may think, “This doesn’t apply to me right now,” or you get something that does apply and you go focused. You go hammer that home. Nine weeks from now, one quarter from now, six months from now, you have different problems. You can solve those problems with the same things we cover. You just weren’t ready for that lesson nine or ten or twelve weeks ago. It’s always overlapping.

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation
Art Of Negotiation: Repetition is the key to learning.

 

The other big difference is that I’m the one leading it and I lead it every single week. It’s not that you get me once a month and then get some training or bring in some guests. They’re live, they’re interactive, they’re recorded and people are asking questions in the group and I’ll answer. A guy asked a very detailed question and I just made a video to answer his question because I realized that I can serve more people more affordably in this manner. I still do some private stuff but it’s for people who have a lot of money and they want private. I get a little more nuanced with them, spending more time one-on-one but I’m applying the exact same principles that I teach in the group. When people enroll, once they’ve paid, they’re in for life. I’ve had people in nonstop for four years. I’ve had people attend every single call for two years straight because as a small business owner, you’re alone. I work from home even though I’m not alone technically. I’ve got six kids still in the house. It’s never a dull moment around here but I can’t talk to them about business. I can say, “Bring daddy some coffee please,” but I can’t ask them about business issues and a lot of my members are solopreneurs or the boss, the owner of a small business. They like being able to ask questions they can’t ask of their employees or staff.

What’s the big promise? If somebody is interested in your program by the end of the nine weeks, what are they going to get out of it? Is it showing them how to prospect or showing how to close deals? Elaborate on that a little bit.

People have forgotten that there are people on the other end of that computer screen. Click To Tweet

You will sell faster at a higher margin with less stress and more fun, and I guarantee it. That’s my headline. Here’s what I do in the calls. You get 41 videos and those are structured to take you from beginning to end. I’m still selling now. It covers key principles about prospecting, about goal setting, about negotiation, so it’s the soup to nuts on sales. Then there’s a 70-plus page workbook. Every week when I’m teaching it and we do a screen share, I’m making edits. After the class, I’m making more edits so it’s a living document. I’m always uploading updates. We were going over prospecting, negotiation, networking, personality profiles, how to read somebody and how to connect with them quicker. We do an hour and that’s structured. Then I stay on the phone for another 30 minutes and answer any question anybody wants to ask. We may look at your website. We can look at your marketing automation. Anything that I feel like I can add some value, we’ll analyze it. Plus, everybody else is staying on the phone. You have other business owners kicking in and giving their input. It becomes like a weekly mastermind as well in the overtime session.

One of the things you talked about that we have not touched on at all with any future guests is negotiating. You’re going through a couple of things you talked about inside of Make Every Sale. I’ve never talked about it. I took a class in my fraternity where we had a guy, Paul Wineman, who was a chief negotiator. I didn’t like how he did it but it’s fascinating. I don’t ever hear many people talk about negotiating. What are some of the principles that you abide by with negotiating and what are some of the common flaws that people do when they think about negotiating?

One of the biggest, especially if you’re dealing in larger contracts, larger opportunities is the proposal process. Most salespeople, most businesses, they don’t discuss price until they send over the proposal. The first time the prospect ever sees the price is on that proposal and people will treat their proposals almost as lures, as bait. They’re shopping around hoping they get picked. Your proposal should be simply a summary of what you’ve already agreed to. I have a 90% to 100% close rate on my proposals and they’re like, “I want your template,” or whatever. It’s like they missed the boat. This goes back to 2004 when I was still selling in High Tech. I gave fewer proposals, but I won more of them because I would ask the hard questions upfront. We start talking about pricing.

Back then, I was working for a startup. We were in Austin, so we were in the shadow of Dell. We were a computer startup with a unique footprint, a unique offering, so we were three times more expensive. You could buy a Dell computer for $600 and we were selling ours for $1,800 to start. On its face value, you’re like, “I don’t want to meet with you. I’ve got my $600 Dell.” As I find the pain and we understand that we can add value, then I mention some ballpark pricing. I asked them, “Based on the pains that we’ve solved, is this totally out of line or is it worth moving forward?” They’re like, “No, we see the value. That is more than we’re spending but it solves this huge pain, so we can continue.” Now they understand that if they’re going to buy 100 computers from me, it’s not going to be $60,000, it’s going to be $180,000. I don’t want that to be a surprise. I don’t want to put a $180,000 deal in my pipeline and have my boss hammering me, “Is that going to close? It’s the end of August. It’s the end of September. It’s the end of Q3.” Deep down, I don’t know if it will close as I know this thing is going to be a shock.

I’m getting a little medallion desktop figure created. When you go on a roller coaster, it initially pulls you up and you hear that clank. It’s called a chain dog. It’s a piece of metal that goes over the tooth and it is dropping down. It’s a security thing. If the chain were to break and the thing gets stuck, you’re going to fall back into those gears and you can’t go backward. I’m creating the sales dog and it will sit on your desk. It will be a little stair-step thing like that when you move the dog up. The idea is there are certain things you have to get answered along the way. Are you the decision maker? Is there pain? What is the pain? How much is that pain causing you? Who besides you care? Are you looking to solve that pain in a reasonable amount of time this week, this month, this quarter?

As you start taking away those issues and you address them, then you can’t go backward. If I say, “Joel, when you’re considering rolling out a new sales training program for your organization, who on your team do you bounce this off?” It’s a nice way of saying, “Are you the boss? Are you the decision maker?” You go, “It’s all me. I’m the Founder. I’m the CEO. The VP of sales reports to me. This is my initiative.” Now when I give you a proposal, that looks great. I’m going to go, “We’re going to think this over and kick it around.” That would be like, “Joel, I’m confused. Back on August 24th at 06:24 AM Pacific, you told me the buck stops with you, that this is your initiative. Now I haven’t heard your VP of sales. You haven’t mentioned his name in the last two months. Why is this just now coming up? What has changed between now and then? Basically, you’re lying to me. You lie to me either when I asked if you were the boss or you’re lying to me now. I don’t play that game. If I think you’re lying to me, if I think you’re BS-ing me, I’ll pull the proposal.”

Selling is a calling. Click To Tweet

Oren Klaff, I’ve had him on my podcast to pitch anything. He’s a great guy, a great sales trainer and a great negotiator. He has done some big deals. He talks about frames. When two people meet, there is an Alpha frame and there is only one. The Alpha frame gobbles up the non-Alpha frames and the biggest, most powerful frame is the moral authority. If I catch you in a lie, I win. My frame becomes bigger. I may lose that deal because your pride makes it good. How I handle it is you’ve got to massage it. That moral frame helps me negotiate from a position of strength but I’m setting it up all along the way. Every step of the way, I know that I get that sales dog going clank, clank, clank. I’m locking in so I don’t fall backwards. The deal may slow down. It may go sideways but it won’t go backward because I’m addressing every potential setback, every deal blocker, stopper, I’m uncovering as we go.

As soon as you explained the rollercoaster, I know exactly where it’s going. It’s like, “I can’t go back. I can’t drop. I’ve got him up at the next rung, now I can’t drop back.” That’s a fantastic way of explaining it. I’ve read Oren’s book. I’ve had a couple of that that worked. It does take practice when you’re having those conversations because just one or two different words of how you say it makes you sound like an A-hole or it makes you sound like you’re in charge. That’s been the hardest thing for me personally, to make sure that I don’t sound like an A-hole when I’m talking to prospects because you want to maintain the Alpha. You want to maintain that positioning, but you also don’t want to sound like a dick.

That’s why I keep teaching the course and people come back because your toughest issue right now might be getting appointments. That’s not a 30-minute fix. I can give you the verbiage and the process in 30 minutes, but you’ve got to internalize it. Professionals don’t do something until they get it right. They do it until they can’t get it wrong. That’s going to take time. You can’t get on the phone, how do you handle the meeting? How do you handle the appointment? How do you handle a complex sale? How do you start pulling out information? How do you determine who’s the coach, who’s the roadblock? That takes time and it all feeds in as well in your writing and in your marketing. I talk about congruency. Everything is going to line up. Your website can’t look like Nordstrom and you show up looking like Walmart and vice versa. It’s what I’ve done for years. Some of it is natural. A lot of it even goes back to being in the military and started in ’88. The training that I got on how to lead people, how to follow, how to not leave any stone unturned. They beat it into our head like the attention to detail, every little thing matters especially now it’s so competitive. Everything’s commoditized. Small hinges swing big doors, so what small hinges are you ignoring or overlooking? That’s what we hope to uncover.

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation
Art Of Negotiation: There are certain things you have to get answered along the way.

 

I want to go to the rewind section and I want to talk about what are the major opportunities that got you to where you are now like leading your program, leading your Make Every Sale Program and working with your clients. What I want my audience to understand is opportunities are everywhere. You have to have those glasses on to be able to spot and seize those opportunities. I’ve told many stories of the different opportunities that have come up in my life. If you think back to the past ten years or the past twenty years, are there any stories that jump out in your mind like, “It’s because I accepted that opportunity or solved that, that made a huge shift in my business career?” What are some of those stories that have happened?

They do all add up. There have been so many. I started this Southern Social Media Podcast in 2009 with a buddy of mine at Kentucky. I grew up originally in Louisiana and moved to Houston in sixth grade. We were just a couple of Southern boys talking about social media and we didn’t stick with it. I’m bummed but I still have this microphone from back then. That gave me confidence. Four years later, I knew how to start a show and so I started another one. That has opened to a lot of doors. It’s given me access to a lot of great people being able to talk to them. Going back to late ’99, I moved to Austin because I was working with a company that was going out of business and I was in a small town. I was a general manager of a mobile home store in Corinth, Mississippi. I knew I had to get to a bigger city. I knew Austin was popping. Having served in the military, I had access to this company that did the recruiting for military people, people even in service and people with a military background. I got hired by them in early 2,000. There was this networking group in Dallas of a bunch of academy grad and I was like, “How come there’s not one in Austin?” They said, “Start one. You just do it,” so I started one and 55 people showed up. Three months later, somebody who showed up was a West Point grad recruited me away.

Always strive to want to learn more and always be hungry. Click To Tweet

Then I was in High Tech and living in Austin. There was a marketing guy down there and I was making money. I could afford his marketing. I went to his courses there live, in person and I met a sales trainer. I took the sales trainer’s twelve-week telemarketing class and then I become a licensee of his. Then I started The Sales Whisperer. That guy, Steve, after two years working with him, he became a Dan Kennedy partner. I start reaching Dan Kennedy and he comes to Anaheim at the convention center in 2008. I went and saw him and he’s an investor in Infusionsoft. I became a partner of Infusionsoft and became one of the number one salespeople in the world of Infusionsoft. All these things were interconnected because I took action. When you step back and analyze where you are and how you got there, you went through maybe some dark times to prepare you to handle the better times that were coming. Everything’s connected.

You went through a chain of events from you starting that local networking group then that led to the telemarketing course, and then Dan Kennedy. For those who don’t know who Dan Kennedy is, some call him the Godfather of Direct Response Marketing. He is very influential. Which of those pieces that you rattled off do you think had the biggest impact? Usually, there’s a light bulb like, “I’m trying these new things.” Was there any one of those that finally clicked like, “I can see this happening for me. I can see how I can directly apply this to make a big impact on my business?” Did any one of those stand out?

When I started going to Roy Williams’ programs in Austin, I realized I wasn’t alone as being a misfit, as being a creative type, as wanting to do things differently. I realized the stuff I’m reading, the stuff I’m being taught, it just didn’t feel right. That let me knew that I’m not alone. I was in sales and working with people in this tech company. They were headquartered out of New York. I was running a territory. I was alone and I couldn’t talk to my boss about these creative things. Knowing I wasn’t alone was a big deal. Then that led me to Steve and taking Steve’s class. I was like, “This is how professional sales is done.” I had made at least a $100,000 in sales since ’98. This was in 2005 when I signed up for the course and then it started in 2006.

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation
Art Of Negotiation: You go through some dark times to prepare you to handle the better times that are coming.

 

For eight years, I was making good money. People would say I was successful in sales, but I knew I was working too hard to make that money. Then I was like, “Here’s a system. Here’s a process. I get it. This is how I can scale. This is how I can work less and make more by being more efficient not chasing every deal.” Meeting Dan Kennedy showed me how to systematize. Steve showed me a system for selling, one-on-one sales. Dan Kennedy opened up my eyes to having processes for marketing but then realizing marketing was just selling in print. I was good at sales one-on-one, it was a direct application to do it in marketing. Then I found Infusionsoft and then that was the system, the technology that allowed me to scale and go far and wide. That was when I made my first sale from someone that I didn’t speak to. I was selling a $97 program. She found my website, found the blog post, watched the video, bought the course without me ever speaking to her and we’re still friends to this day. I was like, “This stuff works. I can sell without talking to people.” I needed each one of those to happen in the order they happened to end up where I am now.

The big thing that I want to reiterate and it’s very clear with your story is you have to create all of the individual links to see the chain. You have to go through it all in order to take a step back. It’s like, “Here’s the chain. This links here, this links here and this links here.” They might not even line up all together at once. If you go through it and you find all the individual pieces of your chain link, then at some point, they all come together. Many people drop off before the finished chain is put together. The key principle that I’ve talked to everyone who is on this show, all the successful entrepreneurs and business owners don’t give up. You have to take it all as a learning experience and always strive to want to learn more and always be hungry.

You've got to stay true to the principles while being willing to tweak around the edges. Click To Tweet

As you’re going through your story, it’s going to be great. You are not alone. Then you learn one-on-one sales. How do we get more of those sales? I need to learn marketing. All those things led to another because I’m great. Now, I’m good at one-on-one sales. I could use more leads. Ultimately, it led you to Infusionsoft, which is the automation system. You’re talking about automation but you’re saying that you also have to have a human to human interaction. Let’s talk about one big takeaway that you’ve had, reflecting back on your entire professional career. We’ve talked about negotiating, we’ve talked about the mistakes that people make with proposals and trying to jump to the sale too quickly. Then they fall down the rollercoaster because they are not linked in by that chain dog. Give me some mentality that somebody has to go into with the next sale that they make as the Sales Whisperer?

When the light bulb went off for me, I was in Steve’s class and I had some questions, things just weren’t clicking. I was in Southern California. I was in Torrance sitting in front of a prospect’s office and they ended up becoming one of my biggest clients. I had some questions and Steve said, “Just give me a call. Let me do a little one-on-one with them,” and it was not part of the course. He knew that I was hungry and he knew that I was diving in. He was hammering home like, “Did you ask this? Do you have that? Do you have an agenda?” I was like, “No.” I was simultaneously crushed and fired up. I was crushed because I realized I was going into this meeting blind. I was going in with no agenda. I don’t know who’s going to be there. Figuring out along the way, I was quick on my feet and it usually has worked. Then I realized, “This is the last time I’m going into a meeting without knowing what is going on, without a mutually agreed upon agenda with an objective agreed upon verbally sent over via email in writing and bringing physical copies.”

I still carry them in my backpack to this day. I always have five to ten printed agendas for a meeting. That changed for me. I was like, “Now I know how to sell as a professional and to have a system.” The difference between a rookie and a professional is that a professional takes the time to prepare and they stick to the script. I am selling Infusionsoft. I wrote a book on Infusionsoft. I was at one of their conferences and this guy comes up to the booth. A friend of mine says, “Do you know who this is?” I was like, “I do not know who this is.” She says, “This is Jason Scheff. He’s a lead singer and a bass player for Chicago, the band.” I was like, “That’s cool.” Then he buys my book. He was like, “Sign the book.” I was like, “You should sign my book.” We yakked it up and he said, “Let’s stay in touch.” I said, “I’d love to see you if you ever get nearby.”

A year later, they came to where I live in Temecula and Pechanga beginning a casino. It was a nice venue. He gave us free tickets and backstage passes. I had never seen them in person. Saturday In The Park was released in 1972. Some of those guys in the band are the original members. They’ve been singing that song for so long. It would be understandable if their heart wasn’t in it but their heart was in it. They sound just like the album. They practiced, they drilled, they rehearsed. They had their set. They played the set exactly the same every time because it was the first time I ever heard them live. I appreciated them having the professionalism to stick to the script. Commit to a process and stay with that process. That’s the ironic thing. It’s always a dichotomy. Eventually, the process will stop working, so you have to be open to testing bits and pieces of it. Look at Disneyland. They buy Star Wars, they’ll shut things down, close one thing and build a new one but it’s still Disneyland, the core concept of happy, energetic and keep the place clean. That never changes. You’ve got to stay true to the principles while being willing to tweak around the edges. You’ve got to have a process.

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation
Art Of Negotiation: Between a rookie and a professional, a professional takes the time to prepare and they stick to the script.

 

You said something there that stood out. You said, “Eventually the process will stop working.” For the nonprofessionals, for the rookies, they won’t have any idea what’s not working because they’re winging it. They go in without an agenda. It’s something so simple as having an agenda that makes a huge difference in everything. I’ll give a personal example that happened to me. I flew out to LA for a one-on-one client meeting for 24 hours. I’m based in Niagara Falls, so it was a long flight. It was quite a trip. It wasn’t a sales call. It was already a client of mine and we were working on his webinar. We went in and he was the one who was like, “Do we have an agenda?” I was like, “You asked me to come out. You have me whatever you want. You can ask me whatever you want.” He said, “I need to create an agenda.”

Without him doing that, it would have been very loosey-goosey. The fact that he had it and he printed it out and handed it out was like, “We’re on the same page. We know what to talk about.” It sounds very redundant. It sounds juvenile talking about it like this but so many people don’t do it. I wasn’t going to do it but as soon as I saw it and I was on the receiving end of the agenda, my anxiety level went down, and I can only imagine it’s probably the same for prospects. When they’re handed in agendas, there’s not going to be any awkwardness because I know exactly where we’re going. I can see the path and I can see the road. It makes all the difference in the world. That’s so simple.

Professionals do it until they can't get it wrong. Click To Tweet

Especially when you realize that half the population is very analytical, they’re introverted. You may be this gregarious, outgoing, hard-charging type, “Let’s just go. We’ll figure it out as we go.” That’s fine but half the population is not that way. If we’re showing up anxious, it’s like showing up to a blind date like, “I hope he’s cute. I hope he’s nice. I hope he’s not rude. I hope he’s not a pervert. I hope he showered. I hope he smells good but not too good.” All these things are all amped up. It’s not a good way to start a relationship, so put them at ease. The hard chargers of the world. They’re like, “Agenda, great. I got it, whatever.” They don’t care. Having it doesn’t hurt your connection with them but not having it crushes your relationship with those that need it.

You serve everybody even though they don’t need it but the ones who do need it, that’s where it’s going to hurt. Wes, we talked about a ton of stuff. We talked in the very beginning about your Make Every Sale Program. You said, “Repetition is the key to learning,” and I want to highlight that because with so many programs out there nowadays, there’s a start and an end point. Once you hit the endpoint, it’s done. Not many people will go through the cyclical notion of restarting it, following the Chicago model, playing the same songs for 46 years straight until they can’t get it wrong. The other thing you talked about was to do it until you can’t get it wrong. That’s what professionals do. The things that you’ve been saying throughout the entire episode link back to how repetition is the key to learning. I want to highlight that because that was very congruent.

You got out of the Air Force in 1997. You have a family of nine, which is a large family. You launched The Sales Whisperer in 2006. You talked about all things prospecting, negotiating and networking. We talked a little bit about negotiating and frameworks. We talked about the chain dog, the sales dog, the moral frames, Oren Klaff and professionals that do it until they can’t get it wrong. Thank you for your service. I didn’t realize you were in the Air Force. Thank you so much for your service. Is there anything that we left out in this interview?

No. We went pretty far, wide and deep.

Let my audience know where we can connect with you and find you.

It’s TheSalesWhisperer.com. You can find everything there. The program is MakeEverySale.com.

Make sure that they can connect with you on Facebook. I’m assuming you’re more active on LinkedIn.

I’m easy to find. I’m on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook. I’ve got The Sales Podcast.

Wes, this was fantastic. To our audience, I want you to do me a favor. Go connect with Wes. Let him know that you heard him in his interview on Experts Unleashed. Give him some love and check out his stuff. As far as I know, I have never met anyone who cycles through the program. Without a shadow of a doubt, when Wes says repetition is the key to learning, it absolutely is. Give his program a try if you’re into it, if you need help with sales, if you need help with marketing because I promise you, if you commit to the repetition, you will make steady strides. Wes, thanks. Thank you so much for joining us. I’ll see you in the next episode. Take care.

Important Links:

About Wes Schaeffer

EU 39 | Art Of Negotiation

Wes Schaeffer is an Air Force veteran, father of seven, author of two books, host of The Sales Podcast and The CRM Sushi Podcast, and founder of The Sales Whisperer® where he has helped over 2,355 of the world’s top professional salespeople, sales managers, business owners, and entrepreneurs in 29 countries master marketing automation and inbound selling.

A prolific writer, international keynote speaker, and sales trainer, Wes have been named the top partner at Infusionsoft, the #1-rated sales and CRM trainer at Dell during their Salesforce CRM deployment, and numerous awards during his years selling to high tech giants such as Google, Apple, and Sprint.

Wes is The Sales Whisperer®, an obsessively pragmatic entrepreneur, sales trainer, copywriter, and speaker who believes marketing is just selling in print. He is the author of three books on sales, marketing, and entrepreneurship and has helped 2,400 of the world’s top speakers, authors, coaches, and sales professionals achieve nearly miraculous growth by implementing his repeatable, transferable, and proven processes.

Joel Erway

Joel Erway is a digital marketing consultant to 7, 8, and 9-figure clients, sales webinar expert, podcast host, and agency owner. Joel is an expert in helping others monetize their expertise. Since 2014, Joel’s been committed to helping entrepreneurs transform their passion into 6 and 7-figure expert-based businesses. His agency, The Webinar Agency, serves coaches, consultants and small business owners with skillfully crafted sales messages and high-converting sales and lead generation webinars to generate more customers and clients. It’s no wonder why he’s the go-to consultant for many of the top performing digital marketing sales and lead generation webinars. With over 200 webinars under his belt, he’s generated 7-figure growth for multiple clients within the past two years alone. Much like you, Joel’s path to purpose was nonlinear. He pivoted several times throughout his journey, including a risky uproot from an unfulfilling career as an engineer. Eventually, he found alignment in helping others leverage their experience to grow successful businesses. Check out his Sold With Webinars podcast at http://thewebinaragency.com/podcasts/. In his spare time, Joel is an avid reader and market researcher. He enjoys traveling and spending quality time with his family in upstate NY. He is really excited to add to his services - live webinar/marketing intensive workshops! Be on the look out for the next one! Check out The Webinar Vault - a compilation of webinar critiques here: soldwithwebinars.com/register Check out our Facebook Groups to stay connected: Sold With Webinars & Experts Unleashed

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